This is who we should blame for price rises due to delays

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JonFromWellington
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This is who we should blame for price rises due to delays

Post by JonFromWellington » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:42 pm

The leaseholders ! Or at least some of us

Criticism for Adairs Surveyors , for GSC , for our contractors , for the consultant , the old board , the current lot , the tribunal that took months over updating the leases to allow the project to start

But no one is putting the blame where it really should be put , the LEASEHOLDERS:

- It took A YEAR for 75% of us to tick a box supporting the lease modification when it should have taken a week , this delayed EVERYTHING. The rest failed to ever tick the box

- Most fail to ever bother to turn up to AGMs or reclad meetings - no wonder there is so much ignorance about the project from flat owners !!

- Even after the old board came within days of making Wellington Close bankrupt, the leaseholders show zero diligence when it comes to electing directors to the board . How is that woman who shouts rubbish at meetings about the leases a member of the board and making million pound decisions ?! Wasnt she on the old board and messed it all up before ? We just stick our hands up and vote in anyone who wants to be on to join the board regardless of how incompetent they are !

- Most of Wellington Close is owned by landlords who are successful businessmen -but only about 4 have joined the board in the last 10 years even though that's exactly the sort of person we need to run this project . If those lot weren't on the board id join it myself and im not qualified .
abelard
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by abelard » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:07 pm

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Last edited by abelard on Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
peterstreet1599
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by peterstreet1599 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:23 pm

Jon I've recently started using the forum and noted your post.
I agree with you about the apathy of the leaseholders.
I was going to say something at the AGM about the importance of electing the right people to the board. I actually had worked on a speech for weeks because I know a great deal of what the board has been doing for the last 6 years or so, as I've been party to their e-mails and the minutes of their meetings.

My partner was on the board for years battling to get the re-cladding done, and trying to knock some sense into them. I was going to try to advise the leaseholders at the AGM, at any rate give my opinion on who should and should not be there, who of them has the slightest idea about the practicalities of the work, and who would get on with it and who would continue to hold it up. I would have liked it if someone had come along and done that for me in the early days when I hadn't a clue who to vote for. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have expected the leaseholders to follow blindly my opinion, but it might have sparked off a debate and maybe forced some of the directors to give their credentials and defend themselves, and say why THEY thought they should be there. To give us an idea of what they think they have to offer. I was going to beg the leaseholders to realise their responsibility in this whole affair. You are right, it is our fault the same ineffective directors are there year in year out continuing to mess it up, and they have never been held to account for their mistakes.

Guess why I didn't make my speech, Jon? Half the leaseholders left halfway through the meeting! Right before the elections. I would have been wasting my time as there weren't enough voters there to talk to. They just don't get it, do they? I've never seen some of those board members look so relieved! They had genuinely been afraid they were not going to be re-elected. Leaseholders who have several flats give proxy votes if they are going to be away to favourites they have on the board, and as for the rest of us "We just stick our hands up and vote in anyone who wants to join the board regardless of how incompetent they are!" That is a line taken directly from your post, but it could be a line taken directly from the speech I never made! What can we do? I'm doing my best by inviting folk to a meeting a week ago, a meeting we expected the board to attend and have an open debate, but which only 2 members of the board attended, the others did not have the guts. Those two are the right sort of people to have on the board. They have intelligence and common sense.

One last thing about where the blame lies. The leaseholders can be blamed for apathy, lethargy, voting people in without proper consideration, however they are not totally to blame. The blame for the delays must lie with the people who are in power who messed up. For example, if I vote for a party and that party gets into government and messes up, I'm not entirely to blame am I? I wasn't expecting them to mess up. On the other hand, our leaseholders SHOULD be expecting the directors to mess up, as they've never done anything else! So, I take that back, as you were, yes, the leaseholders must take the blame! Why do you say you are not qualified to join the board? You sound like someone we need. Post a reply and we can talk about this.
JonFromWellington
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by JonFromWellington » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:28 pm

Peter

(or I guess your real name is Heather or Brian??)

you have asked for a reply

I am not at all interested in the politics of this. I just want my windows done and my flat warmer.

I am sorry it didn't work out when you were running it, but those prices were too high.

I have read the letters from the surveyors and contractors.

It looks like we are heading in the right direction now.

My flat is cold and damp. Please do me a favour: stop interfering with this project.

I am also not interested in getting into a debate or an argument. I read your messages before the mods deleted them.
peterstreet1599
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by peterstreet1599 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:16 pm

Jon

Thank you for your reply, good to hear from you.
Identities correct, we don't hide behind anonymity. If you're interested, Peter Street was the carpenter who rebuilt The Globe Theatre in 1599. Brian is a carpenter and I am an actor, we're both crazy about Shakespeare, so it seems appropriate!

Absolute agreement all round from all concerned, windows done and flat warmer! I do believe that's what we ALL want!!
Where I'm sorry but I have to put you straight is on the "high prices when you were running it". When we were running it was in 2010 when we got 3 prices of between £25k and £31k per flat inclusive of VAT. I think you'll agree those were not high.
We're not suggesting for a moment we could get down that far years later and in a different economic climate, but the prices last summer which you say were too high were not of our making. They were nothing to do with us. They were achieved by the surveyor, Adair, not by us and by contractors selected by Adair, not by us.

The re-cladding must be done in a manner which befits such prominent buildings. It must be done: -
1) using the best materials which will be aesthetically pleasing for decades and require next to no maintenance over those decades.
2 )sooner rather than later
3) with the least possible cost to the leaseholders.

We are opposed to insulated render and there are many people who agree with us. We have replied to your other post regarding the Arndale Centre.

We are pleased to say that the moderator did not actually delete any of our messages, only our responses to certain other people's posts which he decided to delete altogether. He did a fine job in stamping out all the personal attacks, and we were extremely relieved when he stepped in. Everything of importance that we want to say is still there and we hope we will not be bothered by such trivia whilst we are embarked on such a serious topic again.

Honestly, I don't blame you for just wanting it to go ahead willy nilly, a lot of people will feel the same way, and I really do sympathise. But it's a bit like my sympathy for all the leaseholders who walked out at the AGM. It's not a responsible attitude in my view. We honestly believe that what is planned is a massive mistake, and we are doing our best to prevent that. We are only going to do this once, let's do it right.
JonFromWellington
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by JonFromWellington » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:41 pm

peterstreet1599 wrote:When we were running it was in 2010 when we got 3 prices of between £25k and £31k per flat


the prices last summer which you say were too high were not of our making. They were nothing to do with us. They were achieved by the surveyor, Adair, not by us and by contractors selected by Adair, not by us.
This contradicts what you said at the meeting last summer
abelard
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by abelard » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:29 am

peterstreet1599 wrote:
Brian is a carpenter and I am an actor
We have a team of surveyors / architects, multimillion pound contractors and subcontractors, a property management company, a legal property tribunal chamber and the council's planning officers working on this..

Let's leave it to them to do it..
Taipan71
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by Taipan71 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:54 am

Yeah that's right let's leave everything to the surveyors, property management company shall we? Because they've done such a great job so far. These people take their orders from the board who have absolutely no experience in this field!
peterstreet1599
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by peterstreet1599 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:39 am

Abelard

It is remarkable how little this vast body of professionals has achieved.

The tenders were opened on 30th June 2014. The only significant change to the specification that we can glean from the scant information supplied is that they have substituted insulated render for rain screen cladding, and we still don't have a costing 8 months later.

Perhaps we are still in our "Summer of contemplation"

The most important people in this project are the leaseholders, who actually have to pay for the re-cladding.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.
peterstreet1599
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by peterstreet1599 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:00 am

Taipan

We agree with you that this large body of professionals has achieved very little, as we have said here to Abelard.

Our view, whether people agree with us or not, is that it would be a mistake and very short sighted to clad any part of these buildings with insulated render. We have repeated all our reasons for this under "Re-cladding" elsewhere on the forum.

There is clearly going to be a difference of opinion, however, the matter should be debated openly and we should not have wet render forced upon us.

We believe that we can still have rain screen cladding at an affordable price by reducing the specification down to the re-cladding and the roof, using separate specialist contractors, thus eliminating the layers of profit margin incurred by the main contractor and the various sub contractors.

This was the original concept in 2010, but since then this strategy has never been properly tested.

We fully realise that some people are fed up and are prepared to accept anything just to get the job done.

Even if it is difficult, we must do the job properly, for the sake of the buildings, the leaseholders, the town of Walton and posterity.

In addition we have all been told that the contractors are now running the show.
peterstreet1599
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Re: This is who we should blame for price rises due to delay

Post by peterstreet1599 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:08 pm

Jon

I refer you to my response to your allegation that I am contradicting myself under the topic "Re-cladding".
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